If Jesus was God ...

The "Son" Title:

How come Christians take the "God's Son" title literally with Jesus and they don't take it literally for the rest of the prophets and people who were called the Sons of God?

In John 3:16 Jesus was called God's only Begotten Son.

In Exodus 4:22 "Thus saith Jehova, Isreal is my son, even my firstborn." Isreal was called God's First Son.

In Jeremiah 31:9 "I am a father to Isreal, and Ephraim is my firstborn." Ephraim is God's First Son and First Born.

In Psalm 2:7 "... Jehova had said onto me (David), thou art my Son; this day have I begotten thee." David was called God's Begotten Son.

Were Jesus's Miracle's Unique?

If Jesus is believed to be GOD because he could do miracles, he could heal leprosy, he could cause blind men to see, or raise the dead, then what about the others who performed the same miracles?

Elisha and Elijah fed a hundred people with twenty barley loaves and a few ears of corn (2 Kings 4:44).

Elisha told Naaman, who was a leper, to wash in the river Jordan (2 Kings 5:14) and he was healed. Elisha caused a blind man to see in (2 Kings 6:17,20).

Elijah and Elisha raised the dead in (1 Kings 17:22, and 2 Kings 4:34). Even Elisha's dead bones restored a dead body in (2 Kings 13:21).

Indeed Jesus had prophesied that people will worship him uselessly and will believe in doctrines not made by GOD but by men "But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.(Matthew 15:9)"

In Matthew 15:9 above, we see Jesus warning that Trinity (the bogus lie) will dominate, and people will take Jesus as GOD and worship him, which is a total sin according to what Jesus said !!

Allah Almighty (GOD) in the Noble Quran (The Muslims' Holy Scripture) states in Verse 5:72 "They do blaspheme who say:'God is Christ the son of Mary.' But said Christ:'O Children of Isreal ! worship God, my Lord and your Lord.'"

Also in Noble Verse 5:73 "They do blaspheme who say God is one of three in a Trinity: for there is no god except One God. If they desist not from their word (of blasphemy), verily a grievous penalty will befall the blasphemers among them."

And also in Noble Verse 4:171 "O People of the Book! Commit no excesses in your religion: Nor say of God aught but the truth. Christ Jesus the son of Mary was (no more than) an apostle of God,..."

MUSLIMS believe that Prophet Jesus (peace be upon him) is a messenger from God. He was sent from God Almighty to deliver God's words to his people. Jesus was never God, nor ever claimed to be God. Jesus was a humble wonderful human being just like the rest of the Prophets and Messengers of God. Muslims also believe that Jesus was never crucified, nor ever died on the cross, nor ever wanted to die on the cross, nor ever was sent to earth to die on the cross.


I invite you to listen to this beautiful audio lecture by Gary Miller (click on the link below, listen and enjoy the Truth):

“The Devinity Of Jesus”: (Audio lecture) by Gary Miller

Was Jesus the first (and only) crucified SAVIOR (as claimed by christians)!?

See this historical document stating that there were 16 crucified SAVIORS before Jesus!

Pagans' saviors :Historical Documents: Kersey Graves: The World's Sixteen Crucified Saviors: Chapter 16: Sixteen Saviors Crucified

I agree with you that people sanctify Jesus to the point of saying he is God, but then again the religion is called Christianity.

I'm about to start reading "God's of our Father's". It's a historical study on the parallels between Egyptian religion during the time of Moses and the striking parallels between Christianity/Judaism/Islam, and some of the Gods of Ancient Egypt.

If Mohammad were a man of God, why did he personally lead several Muslim massacres of Jews in Arabia? If he were a man of God, why did he authorize murdering people in the name of God?

Be advised: if you dispatch murderers to kill me, know that I have shown all this internet traffic to three friends who serve as Assistant District Attorneys. You will get caught.

"Be advised: if you dispatch murderers to kill me, know that I have shown all this internet traffic to three friends who serve as Assistant District Attorneys. You will get caught."

A little Paranoid, aren't we?

Mohammad wasn't a man of God, he was a man of oppurtunity. He saw an oppurtunity to take advantage of the uneducated to swindle them and use their superstitions to make them sheep. Free will is a wonderful thing that God has given us. Unfortuately the lack of intelligence allows for the free will of man to be cut down by his own stupidity. Islam is the greatest example of a man's free will being quashed by all of the rules put in place by it's leaders. The abject domination of women, the brutal punishment, the prejudice against all those of do not subscribe to their religion. All primary examples of a religion created by man. If it were divine in nature, then all of Gods people would be equal before him. Not just those who have a penis, or wear a towel on their head.

calm down

Wanna call Muslims xtreme? In the new testament Jesus criticizes the pharisees for not stoning their children, uses as an analogy the then common practice of beating slaves, Paul in Romans says after the crucifixion that gays should still be killed. Paul makes sexist remarks about women in the name of god, and gives guidelines for slavery.

The only reason Christianity isn't as bad as Islam when it comes to human rights is that Christian Churches dine buffet style from the table of theology.

And as a notice

I'm not sure why anyone is afraid they are gonna be threatened in this thread. This forum does not tolerate threats of the physical nature. If anyone does this they'll find significant trouble when they try to log in...

Well said, could't agree more.

I think Jesus (peace be upon him) was only sent to the Lost sheep of the House of Israel !




Women are considered as dirt that defiles men in the bible:

Revelation 14:4 "Those are those (men) who did not defile themselves with women, for they kept themselves pure. They follow the Lamb wherever he goes. They were purchased from among men and offered as first fruits to God and the Lamb."

The bible considers the Birth of any female is a loss: Ecclesiasticus 22:3 "....and the birth of ANY daughter is a loss" (From the New Jerusalem Bible. It's a Roman Catholics Bible).


Fathers can sell their daughters as slave girls: Exodus 21:7-8 "And in case a man should sell his daughter as a slave girl, she will not go out in the way that the slave men go out. If she is displeasing in the eyes of her master so that he doesn't designate her as a concubine but causes her to be redeemed, he will not be entitled to sell her to a foreign people in his treacherously dealing with her."

Daughters inherit nothing when there are sons:
"If a man dies and leaves no son, turn his inheritance over to his daughter. (Numbers 27:8)" So the American law of splitting everything equally is not Biblical.

Women are not allowed to speak in the church:
"let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience, as also saith the law, and if they will learn anything, let them ask their husbands at home: for it is a shame for woman to speak in the church." 1 Corinthians 14:34-35



In the bible:
To the woman (Eve) He (God) said, "I will greatly increase your pains in childbearing; with pain you will give birth to children. Your desire will be for your husband, and he will rule over you."

In Christianity: Woman is a daughter of falsehood (Saint John Damascene)


In Christianity: Woman is the fountain of the arm of the Devil, her voice is the hissing of the serpent (St. Anthony)



IN ISLAM:

Men and women were created for each others, in order to live in peace, harmony and love with each others as husbands and wives: "And among God's signs is this: He created for you mates from amongst yourselves (males as mates for females and vice versa) that you might find tranquillity and peace in them. And he has put love and kindness among you. Herein surely are signs for those who reflect. (Quran, 30:21)"

Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) said: "O my people! You have certain rights over your wives and so have your wives over you. They are the trust of Allah in your hands, So you must treat them with kindness." (Muslim)

Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) said: "The most perfect of the believers in faith is the best of them in moral excellence, and the best of you are the kindest of you to their wives.”

"He who is involved in bringing up daughters, and accords benevolent treatment towards them, they will be protection for him against Hell-Fire." (Prophet Mohammed peace be upon him)



“For those my enemies who they think I (Jesus) shall not be a king over them bring them here and chop their heads before me (Jesus) " The Christians Jesus Christ saying that (luke19: 27)

"Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a Sword" The Christians Jesus Christ saying that.

Deuteronomy 7:12 God ordered the Israelites to kill all the people of seven nations. He even adds, “show no mercy unto them”.

Numbers 31:17-18 "Now kill all the boys [innocent kids]. And kill every woman who has slept with a man, but save for yourselves every girl who has never slept with a man."

Psalm 137:9 O the happiness of him who doth seize, And hath dashed thy sucklings on the rock! (A praise for dashing little children against rocks as a form of revenge)

(Isaiah:13:16)-(Their children also shall be dashed to pieces before their eyes; their houses shall be spoiled, and their wives ravished.)

Deuteronomy 17:3-5 "And he should go and worship other gods and bow down to them or to the sun or the moon or all the army of the heavens, .....and you must stone such one with stones and such one must die."

Chronicles 15:13 "All who would not seek the LORD, the God of Israel, were to be put to death, whether small or great, man or woman."

Leviticus 20:27 "And as for a man or woman in whom there proves to be a mediumistic spirit or spirit of prediction, they should be put to death without fail. They should pelt them to death with stones. Their own blood is upon them."


IN ISLAM:

"God does not forbid you from showing kindness and dealing justly with those who have not fought you about religion and have not driven you out of your homes. God loves just dealers. (The Noble Quran, 60:8)"

"Fight in the cause of God those who fight you, but do not transgress limits; for God loveth not transgressors. (The Noble Quran, 2:190)"

"But if the enemy incline towards peace, do thou (also) incline towards peace, and trust in God: for He is One that heareth and knoweth (all things). (The Noble Quran, 8:61)"

"Let there be no compulsion in religion: Truth stands out clear from error: whoever rejects evil and believes in Allah hath grasped the most trustworthy handhold, that never breaks. And Allah heareth and knoweth all things. (The Noble Quran, 2:256)"

"Again and again will those who disbelieve, wish that they had bowed (to God's will) in Islam. Leave them alone, to enjoy (the good things of this life) and to please themselves: let (false) hope amuse them: soon will knowledge (undeceive them). (The Noble Quran, 15:2-3)"

"Say, 'The truth is from your Lord': Let him who will believe, and let him who will, reject (it):......(The Noble Quran, 18:29)"

Noble Quranic Verse 42:40 "The recompense for an injury is an injury equal thereto (in degree): but if a person forgives and makes reconciliation, his reward is due from Allah: for (Allah) Loveth not those who do wrong."

"On that account: We ordained for the Children of Israel that if any one slew a person - unless it be for murder or for spreading mischief in the land - it would be as if he slew the whole people: and if any one saved a life, it would be as if he saved the life of the whole people. Then although there came to them Our apostles with clear signs, yet, even after that, many of them continued to commit excesses in the land. (The Noble Quran, 5:32)"

"calm down"

Likewise.

"In the new testament Jesus criticizes the pharisees for not stoning their children, uses as an analogy the then common practice of beating slaves..."

Wha......? You're going to have to prove that one, Slick.

"......Paul in Romans says after the crucifixion that gays should still be killed."

Likewise.

"Paul makes sexist remarks about women in the name of god, and gives guidelines for slavery."

Paul was Paul. He wasn't Jesus, nor even knew Him, personally.

"The only reason Christianity isn't as bad as Islam when it comes to human rights is that Christian Churches dine buffet style from the table of theology."

That's a dumb statement. Pleae back it up.

"I'm not sure why anyone is afraid they are gonna be threatened in this thread. This forum does not tolerate threats of the physical nature."

Remember Nick Berg?

The Answer to The Myth of Original Sin

Ahmed Deedat answers a question during a Q&A session about the Myth of the Original Sin believe in the bible & Christianity.

Watch and hear him giving the simple logical answer (click here).

LOL...........silly me!
I thought this was a thread about differences in religious beliefs. I had no idea it was a game. For my piece of mind, let me explain the game to you Sword of god, so you can confirm that I got it straight.

Basically......Sword of God takes obscure passages from the bible and Quran and takes them out context. Then he spins them in such a way so as to provide proof that he is of a superior ilk. So like Islam itself, a complete suspension of reason and common sense is required to play. Now remember, you cannot take the actions of the religions members into consideration, for they will only confuse the intent of the game. Which is of course that you must listen to what Islam says and not what they do.
Have you thought of a name for this game yet, Sword of God?
anyone have any suggestions for this games name?

How about "I Win"?

I was shocked when I read this stuff and I wrestled with it along time but after much thought I concluded that writing off the statements made by Jesus and Paul (Only Luke wrote more of the NT by volume) would be blinding myself to the complete truth of what the Bible says. I'll give you one example, I'm going to do a complete write up on this later but this will give you an idea of where I'm coming from.

for the sake of simplicity in reading I'll quote from the NIV: Mark 15: verses 1-9

1Then some Pharisees and teachers of the law came to Jesus from Jerusalem and asked, 2"Why do your disciples break the tradition of the elders? They don't wash their hands before they eat!"
3Jesus replied, "And why do you break the command of God for the sake of your tradition? 4For God said, 'Honor your father and mother'[a] and 'Anyone who curses his father or mother must be put to death.' 5But you say that if a man says to his father or mother, 'Whatever help you might otherwise have received from me is a gift devoted to God,' 6he is not to 'honor his father[c]' with it. Thus you nullify the word of God for the sake of your tradition. 7You hypocrites! Isaiah was right when he prophesied about you:
8" 'These people honor me with their lips,
but their hearts are far from me.
9They worship me in vain;
their teachings are but rules taught by men.'[d]"


The first thing to note in all fairness is that Jesus does not come out and say "stone your children", but when you take a honest look at the context of the remark it become quite clear what he would have said.

Jesus is debating with some Pharisees essentially about the way you should live your life, specifically Man's Law VS God's Law. They ask Jesus why he doesn't wash his hands before meals and he counters by asking them why they don't keep the laws of God and instead use man made laws.

The example he gives comes from Exodus (which apparently Jesus feels still applies although the modern church would disagree... with Jesus... on this matter). Basically it says that those who strike or curse their parents should be stoned to death.

The key here is that Jesus calls them hypocrites, this says a mouthful about where Jesus was coming from. The whole concept of child execution is a bit tough to get you head around, so lets look at how hypocrite can be effectively used in a debate we can understand.

I support the war in Iraq (calm down I'm not shifting the focus of this post). As you have seen many times there are heated debates between the "stay the course" and "leave Iraq" sections of our country. The best example of all occurs on capitol hill. Everyone in office claims they support our troops, but some have very different ideas about what they should do.

Pro war congressmen often call their anti war counterparts hypocrites because they claim they are supporting the military, but do not support the war it is fighting. Now regardless of your stance on Iraq anyone with a critical mind can see that using the hypocrite term only works if your on the other side of the issue. A self proclaimed patriot who disagrees with the war can't call another self proclaimed patriot who disagrees with the war a hypocrite for claiming to support the military but not the war. That would be about as effective as trying to build a boat out of a cheese grater.

Going back to Mark 15; The Pharisees themselves claim to be the teachers of God's law, we know this from history. But they no longer feel it's the will of God to stone their children so instead they disown them. Jesus debates them on this point, even calls them hypocrites. So Jesus either disagrees with not stoning your children, or makes possibly the worst blunder ever recorded in a debate. It would be the classic "Pot calling the Kettle black" for Jesus to call the Pharisees hypocrites for doing something he didn't believe in either.

But why child stoning, why didn't he choose something else? Look at Mark 7 verses 6-13 (same story retold by Mark instead of Matthew)

6He replied, "Isaiah was right when he prophesied about you hypocrites; as it is written:
" 'These people honor me with their lips,
but their hearts are far from me.
7They worship me in vain;
their teachings are but rules taught by men.' 8You have let go of the commands of God and are holding on to the traditions of men."

9And he said to them: "You have a fine way of setting aside the commands of God in order to observe[c] your own traditions! 10For Moses said, 'Honor your father and your mother,'[d] and, 'Anyone who curses his father or mother must be put to death.'[e] 11But you say that if a man says to his father or mother: 'Whatever help you might otherwise have received from me is Corban' (that is, a gift devoted to God), 12then you no longer let him do anything for his father or mother. 13Thus you nullify the word of God by your tradition that you have handed down. And you do many things like that."


look at the last phrase "And you do many things like that". A person with any real understanding of how the human mind works knows that in a heated debate the first thing that comes to mind will be the strongest polarities. Of all the "many things like that", Jesus choose the stoning of children.

I didn't read all of the above post yet, but you're off to a bad start. Paul wasn't first Pope, Peter was.

oops, I confuse Matthew and Mark allot too

If the christians claim that Jesus (peace be upon him) is God then he must be God of Moses and the biblical jews too. Therefore, Jesus has inspired the Old Testament and accordingly anything in the OT must had been inspired by him, unless the christians deny now that Jesus is God of Moses.!!